Lepista sordida - variation or different species?

Dear friends, I recently bumped into a large population of Lepista sordida under an afforested copse of pine trees (Pinus halapensis). There were dozens of them, and apart from two Inocybe sp. and a Tapinella, there were no other fruiting bodies. Apart from the typical forms, there were some which were lilac and light beige-mauve and the one which seemed to be most different was completely ocre-beige. Hygrophany was observed. I wish your comments about these specimens and whether you think that they are all Lepista sordida as was my original thought or if there other species involved such as

Lepista nuda

Lepista glaucana

Lepista caespitosa....

I am particularly concerned for the individual in images 5248, 5249,5251 which is the most different from the specimens.

The scent (without crushing the fruiting body) was mild except one which was moderately aromatic. The taste was detectable somewhat bitter-aromatic in a few specimens, less pronounced in the majority.

Lepista nuda is morphologically closely related (similar) but various literature states it is more intense violet, it is more robust (e.g. the stipe) and foremost it has an aromatic-fruity scent which sordida lack. I did not smell all the specimens so I dont exclude a nuda within a sordida population. The most interesting is however the last three images (in the field) showing a bulkier and beige fruiting body lacking tones of violet.

Dear all, I am quite surprised with the comments (both the number and the comments per see), and there is a lot to discuss.

This post is about the option Cortinarius.

Starting with the possibility of Cortinarius, I think the only candidate of a possible Cortinarius is the large brown specimen with image number 5246, 5249 5251 with swelling at the stipe. The sad news is that I did not collect it. There was only one like it, and I thought I should keep it there (conservation instinct!), but now, knowing it could be a Cortinarius, I feel a bit of regret (taxonomist instinct!). Looking the grass beneath, there is a rusty brown deposit! On the other hand the first photo (IMG_5229) and the rest are definitely Lepista although this specimen was not collected - the brownness suggested to me to be the usual L. sordida.

Cortinarius s.l. is super rare in Malta, and a find would merit a paper!

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/354834070_Cortinarius_ayanamiiBorziana2_081-086

Now with regards L. nuda vs L. sordida = the classical mycologist question - my background knowledge (probably owned from Italian mycologists) is that to tell apart the following apply:

1. L. nuda has strong violet colours vs L.sordida just a hint and pale hue with brownish being dominant [rate of importance 4/5, easy to detect: 3/5];

2. L. nuda has an aromatic scent vs L. sordida just a faint or none - [rate of importance 5/5, easy to detect: 4/5];

3. L. nuda is a robust large species with thick stipes vs L. sordida which is smaller and slender stipe - [rate of importance 2/5, easy to detect: 3/5];

4. L. nuda is not hygrophanous vs L. sordida which is a lot - [rate of importance 3/5, easy to detect: 5/5];

These specimens were hygrophanous, some had a brown component (but some deeply maroon-violet), generally not strongly scented and slender-stiped. Yet here I see opposing comments, and it is not only here >>> The link below shows the huge contrasting argument between nuda and sordida - more or less like here

How to distinguish between Lepista nuda and L. sordida - UK Fungi

Slenderness seems arguable ( L. nuda f. gracilis with stipe 3-7mm makes this character a bit useless if truly so)

According the Italians, they are fixed on the above:

Zitat

Simile alla Lepista nuda, si distingue da questa per un portamento meno robusto, per cromatismi più diluiti, il cappello igrofano e per l'assenza di odore aromatico intenso, diversamente fungino rancido.

=

[L.sordida] is similar to L. nuda but is distinguished by being less robust, colours [violets] less intense, hygrophanous cap and lacking aromatic odour which is intense in L. nuda while acrid/rancid in L. sordida

L. sordida

L. nuda

When I see all the images of the above pages almost start seeing no distinction apart extremes of the said species and a lot of intermediate morphologies. I guess both species have been separated genetically?

So I am still a bit confused due to different opinions in many schools of mycology (are we dealing with a single variable species?). SOS!

Dear friends. I took this topic a bit more seriously and went to visit the same population 7 days later (no rain) and I am understanding this species a bit better, and I may surprise you a bit. We are talking about a small area of 30x50m. I have photos of the same specimens I photographed above (fresh), and one week later, I can draw some conclusions.

1. I believe that the population is homogeneous, belonging to one Lepista sp.

2. Size of caps varies considerably, but the stipe is always slender, cigarette thick (<10mm)

3. All specimens are hygrophanous (less evident in the fresh/young individuals)

4. There is a gradual change in colour of the pileus and stipe when the fruiting body is ageing, initially (young individuals) are always maroon-violet, rather dull, then gradually become straw to light brown when fully mature/dieing out.

5. The gills also change colour, clean lilac-violet when young, brownish with pinish-lilac hues (esp in the sun) when old

5. The very young fruiting bodies do have a noticeable aromatic scent, somewhat like the pine-resin or fruity, but it definitely fades to nothing when the fruiting body is ageing

6. All specimens clump a lot of pine needles (a few also growing from cones)

7. All specimens produce a white spore print which, when abundant it gets a cream to beige colour.

Please see the photos where in Lepista2.jpg, I photographed side by side the same specimen 6 days later in situ (the violet tones all went when the fb got old) whereas in Lepista3.jpg and Lepista4.jpg I took a sequence of fresh to aging to old fruiting bodies collected in situ at the same time.

I am concluding that these are Lepista sordida in my ignorance of what L. nuda do when dries up, but from the literature, there seems to be a consensus that L. nuda is a non-hygrophanous species (or faintly so), has a robust stem, possess a persistent fruity-aromatic scent, does not brown a great deal with age (because it is not hygrophanous) and keeps its violet colours through its lifespan. I think one should revise the ideas a bit and maybe you have some L.sordida labelled as L. nuda (from the responses I got).

Zitat von Oliver

I looked both species up in a pretty famous but German key for Basidiomycetes (Gröger) and he distinguishes them pretty much with the colour. He notes that L. sordida isn't purple at all. It can contain some purple hues, but it should never have a purple stipe, purple gills or even a purple cap.

I think this is not correct, several sources describe or illustrate L. sordida with violet-lilac colours (see my selection below), but that comment is only true in mature/old specimens which lose scent and their violaceous colours completely.

Lepista sordida, Sordid Blewit identification

Sordid Blewit (Lepista sordida) Identification  -

Sordid Blewit is related to Wood Blewits (Lepista nuda) and Field Blewits (Lepista personata) but not as common. Sweet scented and edible.

totallywilduk.co.uk

Lepista sordida: The Ultimate Mushroom Guide

Lepista sordida: what you should know about the mushroom and identification with photos. Also, check all-around information about this mushroom.

ultimate-mushroom.com

Lepista Sordida: The Sordid Blewit Identification & Look alikes

Lepista Sordida aka The Sordid Blewit or Dirty Blewit is an edible mushroom found worldwide. Come learn it's identification & look alikes.

healing-mushrooms.net

Lepista sordida (Schumach.) Singer 1951 media - Encyclopedia of Life

FInally, after consulting several sources these days - the most reliable feature is the robustness and fleshiness of the fruiting bodies. The best feature here is the stipe because I have seen some L. sordida with big caps, but the stipe is always the shape of a cigarette (5-10 mm wide) even in large specimens whereas L. nuda have a very thick columnar (Cigar-like ) stipe.

Look here for comparison

https://www.mykoweb.com/CAF/photos/Clitocybe_tarda+nuda_fs-01.jpg

from

California Fungi: Clitocybe tarda

Photographs and descriptions of the Mushrooms and other Fungi of California, USA

www.mykoweb.com

L. sordida with big cap but narrow stipe (my pic from Comino island)

Second comes the scent which seems to be more persistently aromatic in L. nuda (according literature) but fades away quickly in L. sordida (young specimens are flower/faintly pine-resin scented!)

Hi Oehrling,

The aim of the post was mainly a discussion on L.sordida and closely related species (in particular, L. nuda), but then the post got a strange path when there was a lot of contradictions between characters referable for L. sordida and L. nuda. Contradictions both between different user's comments and different literature. This hence led me to further research and even revisiting the island where the population was found to shed more light. I dont think this is some new species, but L. sordida is maybe a more Mediterranean species, and I wanted to express that it can easily be confused with L. nuda.

One can of course, don't agree with my interpretation, but for scope of education and scientific observation, the pictures and findings are recorded here so maybe they serve as a reference for future readers and further discussion. I am not trying to convince anyone but simply sharing my opinion/findings/pics.